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BRANDED
11:42 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Take a look at Hong Kong or Singapore?
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Sir Alf
11:39 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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All economic systems are flawed in their pure form. The best system is usually a hybrid or blend of capitalism, socialism etc and getting that balance right to fit the times and status of different groups and cultures at a point in history.
What I think has failed is the "individualistic" or "look only after number one" culture that came with neo liberal economics of Reagan and Thatcher. The so called "trickle down" economics was almost proven right except the problem was the last word, it should have read "trickle up" not down if you look at the levels of inequality and wealth of the top 1% and the rest back in the early 80s versus now.
The indoctrination of consumerism has brainwashed the majority into believing you are what you own and has bred the disease of comparison and a culture and corporate advertising regime that tells you that you are a loser if you do not have a plasma/LCD TV, quality/new car, holidays abroad etc. Pretentious attitudes abound and that suits the corporates and the elite 1% who own these corporations as they shift the wealth in their direction through products that we all know will never bring happiness. Friends, family and relationships are what matter. I wish I had realised that 30 years earlier :-(. Politics and politicians are the side show that keeps the illusion of democracy in place and the population passive to some extent. Large corporates and the super wealthy have more influence with govt and politicians and the great unwashed as it has always been really.
Take a look at the Nordic economies though for some of the better systems where there is a better balance IMHO. The Danes culture for example features the idea of the "common good" which is one reason they are less reluctant to pay higher taxes, But they have the advantage of a far better ratio of population size to resources which is something we definitely do not have. The entitlement culture we have does not fit when there are 70 million wanting a share.
Capitalism in the form that the USA exported to the UK since the 80s has not delivered and to a large extent failed a lot of people and a correction needs to take place. Socialism provides a better safety net but seems to breed complacency , entitlement and poor productivity in the forms we have seen previously. Free market,unregulated money markets and banking, encourages greed on an obscene level. Getting that blend right is very hard but the current inequalities in terms of wealth distribution are shameful if we are really honest. But the current population has been conditioned to look after themselves only. The old "divide and conquer" maxim :-) Govts and wealthy fear one thing and that is mass population movements or people getting together and organised. Well that and a nation of critical thinkers. We cannot have that or the "house of cards" will collapse. Don't worry though, education will never be given the budget or importance to produce too many thinkers :-) Jeremy Kyle is the barometer or yardstick and we have a large percentage of our population who would not be out of place on that show :-(
A modernisation of the democratic systems and electoral processes is something that needs to be addressed too but that is for another day when I have my pitchfork by my side.
No easy or simple answers and hard for us to be too sure or absolute in our opinions because the transparency to the nations finances just aint there at the level of detail needed. Again IMHO.
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deanfergi
11:28 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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http://www.foe.co.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/overconsumption.pdf
Evidence?..
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Alvin
10:37 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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What we've got now is government of the poor, by the rich, for the rich. Trickle-down? Trickle up more like.
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,
10:30 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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krona, Allende for one.
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the thunderer
10:30 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Think about
Your jeans
Your shoes
Your jacket
Your TV
Films
Your car
Our hair cut
Our computer
Our phone
Our football club
Our sound system
Our favourite band
Our shaver
Our holiday
Our toilet paper
Etc
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BRANDED
10:28 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Think about
Your jeans
Your shoes
Your jacket
Your TV
Films
Your car
Your hair cut
Your computer
Your phone
Your football club
Your sound system
Your favourite band
Your shaver
Your holiday
Your toilet paper
Etc
Without capitalism.
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The Kronic
10:26 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Does anyone know how many democratically elected socialist leaders have been overthrown by the terrorist state that is the USA and replaced by tyrant US lackey dictators?
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,
10:19 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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I think it's fair to say that extreme capitalism, like extreme socialism, does not benefit the populace at large. The only upside is for the privileged few at the top of either pyramid who seem to inevitably end up rich as Croesus.
Still from Fiddle's perspective, in thrall as he is to Rand and Smith, anything other than extreme capitalism is seen as socialism.
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The Kronic
10:13 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Infidel 10:05
God you're fucking boring.
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the thunderer
10:07 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Adam Smith... let me think.
He plays left back for Sunderland, right?
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the thunderer
10:06 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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At last! The tastiest fish bites.
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Infidel
10:05 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Just spotted this post. Oh dear.
Thunderer, you are a prize idiot. You haven't the slightest idea how a market economy works and I doubt you even know what capitalism is.
The market economy (let's give it its proper name shall we?) has been the greatest engine of prosperity known to man.
The very fact that you were able to type your nonsense into a computer and broadcast it to the world is a result of innovations that could not have happened without the market economy you claim to despise.
During your average day you,like the rest of us, take advantage of hundreds of innovations that make your life simpler, better and more comfortable.You take them for granted because you don't understand how they are created and made affordable. The processes of Adam Smith's 'invisible hand' are beyond your intellect.
Have you even heard of Adam Smith?
And like all low IQ socialists you imagine a socialist paradise in which you yourself would be part of the decision making process, sitting at the top table moving the pieces around in important meetings. You don't imagine yourself being told to turn up for work tomorrow in a supermarket because the central committee has decided to designate you a checkout operative.
All the socialist experiments in history - and there are many - have led to ruin and human misery. There isn't single success story,not in any of the socialist utopias created in Africa,not in China, Cuba, North Korea or Vietnam.
To see where your socialist nonsense would lead, look no further than Venezuela. 15 years after the first election of Chavez, Venezuela is now officially the worst country in the world to live in.There are queues around the block overnight for bread and flour. The country has crashed as badly as Zimbabwe (another socialist paradise).
You can't have both prosperity and socialism. You have to choose. I choose prosperity.
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Coffee
8:48 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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I think I'll vote for 68.
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Westham67
8:28 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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We are in very strange cycle now. I think the Quantitative easing money should be given directly to the poor. None of this Hedge funds and Bonds bollocks ,Just flat out inflationary consumerism . The poor could tell the rich what the Rich tell the poor now "Its a filter down system , we create the wealth" .With Breweries and Bakers forging a path for Working Class Supremacy
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HairyHammer
8:27 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Means to an End is Capitalism.
God help us all.
Robots coming in, Humans redundant .
Civil unrest ensues
No need for governments to keep the populace happy.
Austerity Austerity Austerity.
New enemy to world stability, The poor and anyone who complains.
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Ronald_antly
8:15 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Nor can the "print print print" mentality.
Especially if the US Dollar ceases to be the World Reserve currency.
That's the main reason for Iraq and Libya. Those two countries were moving toward accepting something other than the USD for their oil.
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Monk~koknee
8:11 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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That there will be another crash is almost a certainty. When and how bad are the unknowns.
The 'borrow borrow borrow' mentality to bolster demand cannot continue forever.
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Ronald_antly
8:07 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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cholo
There are several, but MK is one of them.
The thing about predictions is that you are disadvantaged if you're not the one with your hands on the "lever".
For example, if gold and silver were allowed to reach their true value (particularly silver) there would be a few windows at Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan that would be seeing a lot more of the bankers transition from this world to the next.
For that very reason the markets are manipulated.
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cholo
7:54 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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Ron
I just hope your financial expert isn't still Max "the world economy will crash within six months" Keiser.
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Ronald_antly
7:16 Fri Apr 3
Re: Capitalism - discredited, completely and finally
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neilalex wrote...
"I think you'll also find that the US owns China and not the other way round. That's how massive debt works."
Hmmm, who to believe, neil? You or all the financial experts that say China could pull the pin on the US&A at anytime it so chooses.
Of course, it is true (so I'm told) that China's position is weakening as the shit moves closer and closer to the fan, but if they want to do so, they could fuck the Americans right up.
Unfortunately, the US&A will lead the rest of us by the nose into a massive "conflagration" before they'll allow that to occur.
Nobody wins in that scenario.
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